Sunday, December 02, 2007

Never thought I'd say this, but...

Anyone wanna play BINGO?

Yeah, I can't believe I stooped to that one (though I'm not sure I remember a Gay Comics BINGO card, I'm sure every argument in that post is on it if there is one). I've been of the opinion that the BINGO cards are good for a one-time laugh, but actually used they tend to be conversation killers, and just off-putting and arrogant. Its an inside joke often presented to an outsider at the offset. Not a recipe for actual learning.

I used to be so thoughtful, I'd break down every argument and engage every idiot -- but there's a point where what you read is just so tired and overused you can't take the argument seriously enough to concentrate on debate anymore. You either want to pound your head against the wall in despair at the endless barrage of blindness or point and laugh at the person who doesn't realize that everything he's said has been addressed and debunked ad nauseum, to the point people are sick of arguing it anymore. The latter option is considerably less stressful.

Trolls often count on the former, and play ignorance long after they should. (And there's the not-exactly-small percentage of the population that simply doesn't absorb this stuff, no matter how often they see or -- or even bother to read it.)

So we'll make BINGO jokes, or something similar. It passes the time and relieves the stress. Some people use them too often and only ever make fun of the opposition, some people don't lighten up and make fun rather than debate often enough.

Its a tool for keeping sane rather a tool for persuasion. In my day job the toolbox has both a hex driver and a scribe, because different aspects of the job require different tools.


  1. "It's all warren ellis's fault" takes it to a whole new level, IMHO...

  2. Man, I wish I could get back the five minutes I spent reading that thread and some of the comments.

    I always respond with, "Are you okay with characters having romantic relationships with other characters of the opposite sex? So why are same-sex relationships a problem for you?" No pun intended, but to date I haven't gotten a straight answre to that one.

  3. I didn't realize comics had become a tool of the liberal left. Somebody get Paul Krugman on the phone!

  4. XD

    Awful awful ppl forcing that poor poor person to buy comics with GAY ppl in them!!!!

    How awful! :O It must be so terrifying to be a hetero person in this oppressive homoerotic world xD

  5. Why can't you be sensitive to Lee's plight, he's in such obvious pain!

    Fight on, Lee! For I, too, have a dream. A dream that one day, a normal, God-fearing citizen might be able to walk hand in hand with their heterosexual partner down a city sidewalk and not be stared at and judged.

    (Yeesh, the way he went on and on about all the EGREGIOUS HOMO STUFF being pushed in his face, you'd think the pages of the recent comics were lined with Batwoman and her girlfriend crapping into a cup or something.)

    ~ Vejiicakes @ LJ

  6. Wow... this is the third time I've seen the the 'I don't want to see gay characters in comic books because it means I'll have to explain sex to my young child' complaint used and it STILL doesn't make any fucking sense.

  7. ::raises hand:: Uh - I'm not gay...but I think the occasional gay character in a stable same-sex relationship here and there is a celebration of diversity, rather than the Downfall of Western Civilization....

    May I be excused, Ms. Ragnell? My brain hurts after reading that column,

    Tim Liebe
    Insulted! By Mad Thinker Scott AND James Meeley! Now I'm hurt.... :B

  8. I think the funniest part (and I said so over there) is that he feels that Young Avengers "slapped him in the with it" when a friend of the couple mentions their relationship in passing at the end of the first trade.

    The Authority, on the other hand, "did it right" by...showing the couple kiss at the end of the first trade.

    I must have missed that day in school where they taught us "two men kissing is less gay than somebody mentioning that two men are dating"

  9. Ooh, and now that I read it again (glutton for punishment that I am), allow me to summarize the third paragraph for you:

    "Young Avengers had a fantastic story, until the story part was over, when I WAS FORCED TO FIND OUT THAT TWO OF THE MALE CHARACTERS WERE DATING!!! THE WHOLE TIME!!!! NOW THE STORY IS NOT FANTASTIC!!!"

    It's like Dumbledore's outing all over again.

  10. My favorite part was when he complained about Young Avengers, then complained about retroactively making characters gay, and said if you want to make them a gay character make one yourself ... WHICH IS JUST WHAT YOUNG AVENGERS DID!

  11. I wrote this person a rebuttal:

  12. @quietprofanity: Well, HOBVIOUSLY, since YA is a legacy book, having Wiccan and Hulking be gay is EXACTLY the same as turning Thor and Hulk gay (for each other!) Too bad he won't be reading far enough to find out that it's actually more like turning the Scarlet Witch and Mar-Vell gay (for each other!...wait).

  13. "Why mess with the older material? If you want to add a gay character, fine! Add a gay character, but start with him as gay. Also why is it so important to let us know the sexuality of a character right away? Straight characters are not immediately introduced as straight, but gay characters are almost immediate "outed" as gay."

    Wait, what? If the character (not necessarily a him btw) is gay they should be known as gay but you shouldn't let people know they are gay?

    Also, as we all know, all gay people are completely and utterly gay the day they are born and identify themselves as such to everyone they know just so that they know.

    I think we should also be worried that he might be letting his children read Moon Knight, wholesome family fare that it is.

  14. So, ah, I took you up on that one.

  15. Some ways to tell if someone might be gay:

    1) Does he obsesses about homosexuality?

    2) Does he repeatedly complain about homosexuality in double entendres, expressing concern about having gayness "thrust" "in my face" or "shoved down my throat"?

    3) Does he make bold declarations (or title blog posts) like "I am not gay." (see: Larry Craig)

    If your answer to the above questions is yes, you may have discovered a bona fide gay person. (or maybe you're just reading Jesus' General.)

    I think it's altogether possible that under the incoherent arguments about Frenchie, YA, etc., Lee is just having a hard time coming out and he needs everyone's support.

    Lee, you're here, you're queer, get used to it.

  16. Some ways to tell if someone might be gay:

    They like "Asia".

  17. He didn't pick up that hulkling and wiccan were gay before the end of the trade? I had it called halfway through the first issue.

    As an aside, and not agreeing with any other specific thing this dude might have said (I didn't read the whole thing), Frenchie's outing in Moon Knight doesn't sit right with me either. It doesn't RUIN THE BOOK for me, and nominally a character coming out doesn't bother me, but the execution of it there did. For those who haven't read it, Frenchie presents his sexuality as the reason he sidekicked to Moon Knight for so many years. That's right, all the helicopter rescues, undercover work, fisticuffs, shoot-outs, and other assorted derring doo was because Frenchie just had a huge unrequitted crush on the guy that he couldn't speak about because it would be TOO SHOCKING. I just don't like it that we can't seem to interpert close male camaraderie in literature without a sexual element being in it these days. Ironically, it actually seems a little homophobic to me: The idea that two men can't have strong feelings of platonic love for each other, that such deep affection and loyalty would HAVE to be sexual, because straight guys don't act like that or something. One good thing about Ted Kord being dead is that the spectre of Judd Winick(you know it would be him) deciding to have him and Booster Gold get Canadian citizenship so they can get married no longer menaces me.

    Actually the more I think about it, the more the Frenchie really does seem covertly homophobic. Any straight character who spent literally years risking their life because of romantic feelings they never expressed in any other way would be portrayed as at best creepy and at worst a stalker. I don't really see how going from 'totally absent' to 'mooning loser' is a step forward for gay characters.

    Sorry for the tangent, that's just something that bugs the heck out of me.