Tuesday, September 04, 2007

Dear Commenters Who Never Bring Up My Past Posts,

I've been called out for insulting people's intelligence, and saying people can't read, and calling people bullies and misogynist and misandrist and troll and other such casual insults. Actually, the point of entire posts on this blog are to justify calling someone stupid or a bully or a misogynist. I can get pretty bad, especially when I play with my trolls. However, there's a point where even I draw the line, and if anyone ever catches me tossing this sort of speculation around about another blogger or a comic book creator I want you to link this post in my comments with the word "HYPOCRITE HYPOCRITE HYPOCRITE." (We'll probably spend the rest of the post arguing about whether or not what I said was this bad, because this is pretty fucking bad.)

It started with this paragraph about the Killing Joke:
Which brings us to the issue that she was attacked as a helpless female to get back at a male. So what? Jim Gordon has one person in his life someone wanting to get to him could go after: Babs. And Jim, himself, was nabbed and tortured. And has had to live with the guilt over what happened to his daughter. In some ways, Babs had it easier.

Now, obviously that sort of thing is up for grabs. Its not an argument that'll clear the book of Fridge status but its not like saying that Jade was killed as a way to sabotage Alan Scott's character (yeah, I've heard that one) because both Gordons did go through some serious shit in this one. A lot of its already been discussed already, and I've been watching it without seeing a reason to think less of anyone on either side until I read this:
Shelly, I know this is out of the blue, but do you have daughters? Do you see them as a function of their father? 'Cos I just had this creepy feeling that you would defend your husband if he abused your daughter.

Now, I don't know about you, but I figure on that being pretty fucking out of line over a blog-post. I'm not a person who cries over personal attacks but that's so far beyond calling someone a bitch or a hypocrite or even a liar that I wouldn't know what to say to it. I mean, this is not like saying "Would you want your daughter to read this?" or "Just because you have kids doesn't mean you're right" or even "I wouldn't want to be your daughter." This is outright telling someone you think she would condone child abuse because of how she interprets a comic book.

Fortunately, Kalinara has it covered (Emphasis mine):
No one says you have to agree that Jim "had it worse." No one says you have to like it. But what the hell gives you the right to say that kind of thing to anyone? Just because she has a different interpretation of a FICTIONAL STORY?

Oh, and by the way? Casting implications on a woman's suitability as a mother simply because she disagrees with you? Trying to say that she doesn't value daughters as much as a husband who'd abuse them, when there was nothing in her post valuing adults or men over the sanctity of children? Because god forbid, she think Jim had it worse in that situation than his daughter?

That's far more sexist than a thousand Killing Jokes could ever be.

Anyway, I'm probably asking for trouble but do me a favor and stop me if I ever get that stupid.

Much appreciated.
--Ragnell the Foul


  1. Seriously. He seems like a nice guy usually, but that was a completely revolting thing to say.

    And he's still trying to equivocate/justify it. If I weren't so ticked, I'd go and suggest to him to say "That was out of line, I apologize. I still stand by the rest of my argument."

    I have nothing against a man finding something sexist that I (or another woman) don't, but I've never understood why some small few men like that can't seem to avoid attacking the woman who disagrees. Yeesh.

  2. Oh my god, thank you. I saw that link on WFA and my jaw just hit the floor.

  3. I just read this, and I'm so mad I could spit. I read Shelly all of the time. I comment on her blog, she comments on mine, and we share a giggle occasionally.

    She shares her interpretation of a comic book, and is therefore trounced for being an abuser or somehow enableing an abuser? The whole point of the original article, is that people don't read carefully!

    But to make such a vicious and senseless accusation against a completely innocent person, because she disagrees with you is nasty, brutal and MEAN! And arrogant and bloody-minded.

    I don't know if Shelly has kids. If she does, then they are lucky to have her as a mother. Because she really wouldn't hurt a fly. On her behalf however, I would like to give this "gentleman" a big smack in the head. Or somewhere lower.

    Man, I'm pissed!

  4. It is very tempting not to use similar offensive commentary to the various multiversal scourges that I have sworn to prove wrong.

  5. Wow, I missed this completely. Some folks on LJ are just plain loopy.

    Nothing ever excuses abusing others, of either sex, ever. I have friends who were abused by their fathers and had it enabled by their mothers. Their lives have been seriously f'ed up and the fact that at least one of the father's was abused himself as a boy does not excuse it, though it does explain it, especially since back then, abuse of kids was not talked about.

    Whether or not I have children is my business and while I have no reason to not answer, there's no reason why my answer to that would have anything to do with my feelings about the Killing Joke or any other story I read. I write male characters being raped uh, a bit often actually, in my own fiction and definitely back when I wrote fanfic. That doesn't mean I hate men. I also consider myself a feminist, going back to when I started college in 1970. And I don't particularly care what people think of me. I'd just prefer them to not put words in my mouth and if I think they misrepresented what I said, I'll offer a correction. Otherwise, they can say what they want because to quote a cliche or two,
    It is what it is.
    It don't make no nevermind (I picked that one up from the Levon Lundy character on the Houston Knights TV show and always liked it).

    And thanks for the support, all, especially you, Sally. :)

    Now I have to go read that offensive post and leave a comment. I assumed that LJ isn't friends locked. Nah, I'll just leave it alone. I'm not that petty.

  6. You want to talk petty, Shelly? I compared him to Karl Rove! Now THAT'S petty.

  7. You compared him to Karl Rove?! You fiend. ;)

  8. Personally, I'm not too fussed, but man is my INTELLIGENCE totally PISSED!

    You're on your own, Ragnell!
    *creeps away to blog, sans cranky intelligence*