I'm not pissed.
Yes, they did screw with Kyle.
No, it didn't piss me off. Actually, I don't think Kyle fans have nearly as much to be annoyed with as John fans do or Hal fans did.
That doesn't mean it was a miss, I can wait to see how everything plays out.
Although what's really funny? Its actually a combination of some of the stuff we guessed. (I'll admit this issue also combined those with one idea I had that I left out of the post because I couldn't make it funny, and one thing that never occurred to me but really should have.) Also, that list helps a lot because it goes to show that there is a lot worse they could have done. I should try that again next time it looks like they're screwing with a character I love. Softens the blow.
Or maybe it was that I spent two and a half extra hours at work, only to have my car's battery die and need to be replaced. I was so unbelievably happy to actually get comics that nothing could have pissed me off.
Anyway, feel free to sound off with your reactions in the comments. I want to discuss this one but I'm not sure where to start other than to say that Kyle had better get a hug when this is all over.
What they did is not that bad, I will agree (specially considering that lots of bad things happened to Kyle before). But I can't shake the felling that what was done, was done more because some infantile fanboy revenge/entitlement against Kyle, on par of using Obsidian as doorman just so nobody else can make him a full character (and gay) than genuine interest on this transformation as plot point. You see, I lost the trust in Geoff Johns being a objetive and serious storyteller instead of someone that is just fulfilling his adolescent dreams. Also the thing with Kyle's mom was bad, I mean, can't we have ONE death that is not his fault? I mean he is worse than Spider-Man!
ReplyDeleteIt seemed respectful enough of Kyle, and it was fun. What was the issue with John? It at least highlighted his competence.
ReplyDeleteJulio -- Actually, I always got the feeling that Geoff Johns loved Kyle, actually. Rumor has it he prevented Meltzer from killing Kyle in Identity Crisis because Hal's return was greenlit. (And after what happened to Bart, I'm now sure that rumor is true.)
ReplyDeleteAnd Kyle's mom being his fault? Dude, you're swallowing the same shit the villain's feeding Kyle. Sinestro sent the virus after Kyle's mom. Its his fault for wanting to cause trouble, not Kyle's for wanting to do good.
Actually, Kyle is considerably less at fault with this one than Hal was when he got possessed. (It was also a much more violent, traumatic experience.) The whole point of the scene was that Sinestro had created and was preying on his grief to convince him that he was a cause of trouble. He knows that Kyle's biggest fear has always been Kyle, and worked that perfectly.
I am going to be very interested to see how Parallax hosted by Kyle is treated differently than Hal. Is Kyle conscious during this? Hal had no freaking clue. And how much will it take before Kyle can step in and stop the monster?
Oh, and Donna's memory loss and death weren't ever Kyle's fault, even behind the panels. :)
Aero -- He got only a few lines. He's still not getting any more panel time than a named alien character gets.
Could the expulsion of the "Ion Entity from Kyle's body possibly mean the return of THIS LADY?
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_%28comics%29
notintheface -- So there is a downside to this...
ReplyDeleteI hadn't intended to buy it. I picked it up to give it a look, but fully intended to leave it at the shop and wait for the trade.
ReplyDeleteBut somehow, it never got back to the shelf and I bought it without realizing it. It's a crackin' good start to the story. At this point, I don't see any reason why Kyle fans should be pissed at all -- this is unlikely to be the new status quo. And unlike with Hal, we know that whatever happens in the immediate future, it's not his fault. We didn't know that about Hal for over a decade.
As for the virus, all we have is Sinestro's word that he even sent the thing. He could be taking advantage of coincidence.
I'm very interested. Still gonna get the trade instead of chasing the crossover, but I'm a lot more jazzed about this than I was before.
Well, ok. These comments really seem to mitigate my critics. Actually I think most of my wariness toward Johns is that Lightining Saga is fresh on my mind and if that wasn't pure wish fulfilmment I don't know what is. Well I was not accusing Kyle directly for what happened to his mom, but the fact that everyone connected him have to suffer a tragic fate is a well-known trope regarding him (even in Donna case, he got some issues of his comic being all emo because of this). Is like he is the Spider-Man of the DC Universe and he CAN'T CATCH A BREAK. If you keep piling up on a character like this you either end with someone irrecognizable from the original premise or someone completely disconnected with reality.
ReplyDeleteI stand by my former claim that Johns is maybe too enamored of some characters with give a "fan-fiction" quality to his work that isn't only more evident because he also good crafter of stories (his technique, even when I think the plot is mediocre is always top-notch).
I do hope that Kyle will recover and fight and all that (maybe I shouldn't but I believe the solicitations) but I still thinking some fanboy baiting was involved in the decision (even if have to conced that maybe not as strongly was I previously stated).
I like Kyle. And I think Green Lantern since the relaunch was not but a Low Good (to use the Savage Critics rating). In a lot of ways is just a retreading of old plot points done "in the way it should be done", while I think they actually were done better in their original less than deadly serious iteration.
Julio -- Well, Johns is on his board trying to reassure Kyle fans as we post.
ReplyDeleteI actually liked Johns half of Lightning Saga. It was the Meltzer parts that struck me as unlikeable.
As for wish fulfillment, well some indulgences are entertaining writing, so long as they are handled skillfully. You can't tells me Waid's Flash run wasn't wish fulfillment, but it was one of the most enjoyable books in comics. Hell, the Green Lantern storyline that made a fan out of me, Emerald Knights, struck me as Ron Marz going through the wish fulfillment of getting to write Hal like he wanted to. I loved it, it was wonderful.
And here's the other thing here, Kyle's kidnapping and possession? That's a pretty clear setup. The plot of the crossover will be Hal having to fix this.
I'm fine with what happened to Kyle. Provided it's temporary (and I don't see why it wouldn't be) and that at the end he goes back to normal, maybe even further back to being a Lantern. I really liked the scene of the four of them hanging out together.
ReplyDeleteI can't shake the feeling I've seen THAT happen to Kyle before. One of the annuals, I think, where Hal and Kyle live each other's lives or something?
Julio,
This washed the taste of "the Lighting Saga" right out of my brain. Art as good as Benes' is bad, and writing that feel like actual professional comic book scripting. Plus, it all makes sense.
This was a fantastic comic, something that I've been waiting too long to see, it seems. Johns is back on his A-game with this book. I'm willing to bet that it's dropping Titans and 52 that's allowing him to do work this good; I've noticed he tends to suffer when writing too many titles at once.
ReplyDeleteI anticipate this being a very temporary condition for Kyle, but a good story for everyone.
Well, we will have just to agree to disagree. What I saw was a well done comic (in terms of pacing, structure, dialogue, etc not only mentioning art) that just didn't felt that fun and good. I will be the first to admit that is a good comic to read as far as crossovers go, but I still think missing something. If people have to be reassured that "there is a plan, we don't dislike Kyle" it means either that people obtuse or that you really did too much with the character without him getting a break, and right now I'm more inclined to think that the latter happened even here being the internet (well maybe there is more than these two reasons, fill free to point them out).
ReplyDeleteI will also agree that Waid's Flash run was a lot of wish fulfillemnt, but I always felt that the story was in a confortable first place anyway.
Is not that I don't like Johns, but give me the Johns of pre-one year later JSA or the done in the one rogues in Flash anyday them present Johns. I just feel that something is still off in his tone (or maybe he developed a new style... is not because I dislike something that is not a stylist choice instead of a mistake).
Also, the Lightining Saga, as much as Meltzer parts was about 12 time as bad as Johns parts, it doesn't meant that they weren't bad too.
If people have to be reassured that "there is a plan, we don't dislike Kyle" it means either that people obtuse or that you really did too much with the character without him getting a break...
ReplyDeleteFans are touchy. And DC has helped make them that way with their cavalier killing of Bart Allen, the frustrating death of Ted Kord and the ugly, seemingly lawyer-driven death of Superboy. And, of course, Sue Dibny, who many feel was wronged by Identity Crisis in a way much more heinous than simply ending her life. Likewise with Marvel.
Fans are touchy, and they don't trust the companies to handle the characters with an eye toward their long-term care, and don't trust creators to write stories that respect the characters in a way that they themselves do.
Fans too often don't trust creators to tell a good story. Too often, they're right.
None of this has ANYTHING to do with the treatment of Kyle. But its the context that fans are viewing that treatment in. And that's why some people are upset.
Think of it this way: If a 1960s Superman story -- heck, if a modern Superman story -- had Superman being taken over by an evil alien parasite, would you regard it as disrespect to the character or as just chapter one of a story? The difference is trust. You trust DC to put things right again (in the 60s because you trust the creators, nowadays perhaps only because Superman is not a "disposable" character like one of 7200 GLs).
What's happening to Kyle is no different -- it's an exciting, well-told opening chapter. The reason some fans need hand-holding isn't because the story failed, but instead because of the context in which it's succeeded.
Whew! Kyle's in big trouble, that's for sure. Sinestro really seems to be enjoying himself, which is never a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI think that this is a fabulous story, and Geoff Johns has done a masterful job of setting things up to be pretty nasty for ALL of our favorite Lanterns. The more jeopardy they are in, the greater the satisfaction when somehow, they manage to prevail.
Kyle's been possessed by Parallax. But this is KYLE! Somehow, he's going to figure this out.
As a person who hasn't bought a GL book since they had the old digest sized books from the early '80s for a buck-this book is how you are SUPPOSED to kick off a series.
ReplyDeleteI can't really get into the whole "are they going to treat Kyle right" thing because I am not that emotionally invested in his character. I mean, I understand peoples feelings on the matter and if it was a character I was down with, I would probably feel the same way. So without that particular piece of emotional baggage, all I saw was a great comic book.
There were so many cool moments in here: Guy Gardner, while not the complete psycho dipshit he used to be portrayed as, pulling a asshole move in his taunting of Superboy Prime. Sinestro pegging the personalities of the earth GL's. Reverse Flash absolutely taking it too the big guns of the JLA. The Guardians showing a bit of the ol' bad assery "We're the Guardians of the Universe. We can do whatever we want". The congregation of the Sinestro Corps that shows a bearded balding guy next to an alien with what appears to be human babies in his transparent hunchback. And last but not least, the final splash page with Parallax, Sinestro, the Cyborg, Superboy Prime AND the freakin' ANTI-MONITER?!! IT'S ON LIKE A POT OF NECKBONES!!
On a kind of side note, although I noticed it in this issue, did anyone read DiDio's weekly column with the "four funerals and a wedding" thing? We now know about the wedding and three of the funerals, but he just hints about the fourth funeral with a line about "outrageous fortune." Of course, those words are from Hamlet's soliloquy as part of the phrase "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." You think maybe he's planning to get rid of Ollie, Roy, or Connor?
ReplyDeleteConnor's in the promo art for BC/GA. Ollie's been done.
ReplyDeleteRoy better watch his back.
The events of this special are quite amusing if you think of Meltzer's intro to the Rebirth collection. SUCKERRRRR!
At least Kyle got a better costume out of the deal, though.
If people have to be reassured that "there is a plan, we don't dislike Kyle" it means either that people obtuse or that you really did too much with the character without him getting a break, and right now I'm more inclined to think that the latter happened even here being the internet (well maybe there is more than these two reasons, fill free to point them out).
ReplyDeleteMy money's on "obtuse". Consider:
1) Mind-control is a common supervillain power. We've seen every hero get mind-controlled at one point or another. How often is it permanent? Off the top of my head: never.
2) This is way different from when Hal turned evil: the initial plan for that was that there was no outside influence, Hal simply snapped and went evil, no excuses, no redemption. Contrast with what happened in "Sinestro Corps": did you happen to notice the giant alien bug entering Kyle?
3) Bunch of whiners used to make fun of angry Hal fans, who now cry foul it when their favorite GL is possessed by evil despite how obviously this is just a temporary condition.
I hope Sinestro was lying about sending the virus.
ReplyDeleteNot because it makes any difference whether he caused her death or was simply taking advantage of it. I just think it's absurd that you should expect to believe anything a villain says.
Mari -- Y'know what? I bet that same virus is what killed Iolande's father in GLC. Both deaths, Soranik tried to save the sick person, and both times she failed. I bet the little virus will be her enemy, and she'll have to defeat it.
ReplyDeleteI honestly wouldn't put it past Sinestro to set that virus loose on Korugar.
Damn, Ragnell. If that's not how the story goes, I'll eat my sandwich.
ReplyDelete...Sorry, I'm not big on hats.