Think about how frightening it would be to live in the Marvel Universe now. Think about being a political commentator not knowing if your thoughts were being monitored because of a blog post you made. Think about being someone in power, not knowing if you were actually standing beside who you thought you were at a government banquet. Think about being a person with extraordinary abilities who's forced to sign up with The Initiative or stay in the closet for fear of prosecution. Finally, think about being an ordinary citizen having to tolerate a de facto police state because of an accident in a small town in Connecticut.As I said to someone about the prospect of Millar writing a Superman movie (that rumor is dead now, by the way) -- What, you don't want heavy-handed political allegory that reminds you how much the situation in the real world sucks in your escapist entertainment?
This is probably me being some sad Captain Yesterday sort, but when I pick up a superhero comic, I want something that doesn't provide a version of our current state of affairs with even more paranoia lumped on top. Weird, I know.
Its not that political and social issues can't be done in superhero comics, its just that you get to a point where all of the wonder and fantasy of superheroes get sucked out of the story in order to serve "the point," and the world you're reading about becomes a place you don't want to spend your spare time in anymore.
I don't read any Bendis anymore for kind of the same reasons. I don't want a story where my heroes knuckle down under the sort of stuff that I have to worry about every day, only with a supernatural/superpowered flavor. Give me something with space aliens trying to take over the universe, please. Or a plot to kill God. Or a side-trip to Hell to rescue someone. I don't need to see drug-dealers, rapists and jackass street toughs beating the shit out of my heroes.
Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with being a Captain Yesterday type. I've been reading tons of Silver Age comics over the past year, and I have to say--they're just plain better than the stuff that's out there right now. Every time I say this, someone tells me, "Oh, that's just nostalgia kicking in, making the old stuff seem better." And I say, "No. I read 'Amazing Spider-Man' #1-190 for the very first time this year, and the Silver Age Spidey comics absolutely embarrass Marvel's current efforts." Comics back then were fun, fast-paced, and exciting, not dreary slogging exercises in angst and padding. Nostalgia has very little to do with it.
ReplyDeletePlus, of course, Captain Yesterday is fast. Also, he is from the past. Not just fast but from the past, Captain Yesterday.
Hear fucking hear. I've been disgusted with the Marvel Universe ever since Civil War ended and the bad guys won -- cheering on the Hulk to kill 'em all has been the only highlight lately.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if some of the current writers feel so disempowered that they can't even conceive of a heroic hero, as opposed to a failure.
ReplyDeleteSheesh, no wonder I can't get into Mainstream (as opposed to manga)! I mean, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is about as bad as US mainstream stuff, but at least the heroes can KICK ASS and not be phenomenal jerks. Mostly.
There is no way that I would want to live in the Marvel Universe. Seriously, if you are in trouble, I can't think of anyone outside of Spider-Man, who I would want to rescue me, since I'd probably die in the attempt, or be killed by an angry mutant-hating mob, or thrown into prison for associating with an underground "hero" or whatever.
ReplyDeleteBleh.
Whereas in the DD Universe, I could be rescued by no fewer than FIVE Green Lanterns!
Man, you must really not like any of the Stan Lee/Ditko Spider-man, the Opal City portion of Starman, or the Gruenwald Cap stuff.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that a lot of people group many marvel books as being this type when the brand seems to be split in several ways.
For every "down and dreary" issue of Captain America, Iron Man, and Spider-man we get Iron Fist, the Order and Fantastic Four. The wonder is there children, and Spider-Man is supposedly going to change in a few weeks.
You guys are just reading the wrong books.
I don't know, I like to read escapist entertainment as much as the next guy, but the examples you give worry me. I mean, "killing God"? What if this just reminds people of all of the religious strife and persecution that surrounds them, and their utter inability to do anything about it? What if the alien invasion story contains allegories to some sort of contemporary real-life conflict? What if the story about going to Hell shows that Hell is symbolic of post-adolescent ennui or Web 2.0 solipsism or something? What if, God Forbid, there are troubling portrayals of women or gays contained within?
ReplyDeleteThis is why I feel more pop entertainment needs to move beyond plot-driven character-based entertainment. It just doesn't let you escape enough!
I agree with this post, and this is why I'm a Johnny DC.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, they may have deaths and dismemberments left and right, but at the end of the day DC's heroes at least get to act like heroes.
While most of Millar's Marvel stuff could lead one to suspect his Superman would be kind of an "Ultimate Superman," in his defense, his Superman Adventures run is great stuff. Have you read those? They released most of 'em in digests within the past few years. Obviously Millar had editorial gorillas on his back, since it was a kids comic based on a 'toon, but the result was he wrote a lot of seriously great Superman stories.
ReplyDeleteFor every "down and dreary" issue of Captain America, Iron Man, and Spider-man we get Iron Fist, the Order and Fantastic Four. The wonder is there children, and Spider-Man is supposedly going to change in a few weeks.
ReplyDeleteExcept the Order, FF, etc, are all supporting an *incredibly vile world order*. Pardon me for being uninterested in cheerful books about how well fascism works.
And the DC Universe is a ridiculously dark black-and-white world where people still hate Wonder Woman for justifiable homicide, women are routinely treated horribly and the US government is rife with supervillainous corruption and is pretty much jumping from one supervillain president to the next and the Justice League are fascist brainwashers.
ReplyDeleteAnd all those fun comics from the 1950s and 1960s were written in support of an incredibly racist, sexist and homophobic society and supported those ideas with straight white male hegemony 24/7.
It's a fallen world! Both DC and Marvel do nothing in their fanciful funnybooks but remind me of the death and hatred outside my window, constantly gnashing its fascist spandex teeth at my throat! Death to representational narrative! MAKE MINE FORT THUNDER!
Except the Order, FF, etc, are all supporting an *incredibly vile world order*. Pardon me for being uninterested in cheerful books about how well fascism works.
ReplyDeleteFantastic Four hasn't even mentioned registration lately, to my memory, and features two characters who are two of the biggest opponents of registration as fill-ins for Reed and Sue.
The Order, you could make a case for since they're a registered team, but do you know what happens if you take away the SHRA from that book? You've got reality TV.
Iron Fist mentioned registration like once, and that was so that Danny could diss it and wonder how his former lover could be down with it.
New Avengers, the one with all the popular people, is a book that's all about people who are against this "incredibly vile world order."
Also, the "world order" has been adopted only in the United States and it really isn't very fascist at all, since it's got absolutely nothing to do with national unity and nationalism and everything to do with making sure that people who can cause a million dollars in damage in a single fight are held responsible for their actions.
The funny bit is that I don't even like the SHRA, but you're thoroughly misrepresenting it.
Marvel gives it's audience everything it asks for, even if half of what the audience says it wants contradicts the other half.
ReplyDeletePedro -- See, now I like the Starman stuff. It was nicely balanced with sweeping epics based on superhero legacies and going to outer space.
ReplyDeleteDark with the Shade was like a supernatural horror story, emphasis on the supernatural, not just plain crime fiction with superpowers.
Its not the tragic mood that gets me, its the tragic mood that comes too close to the miserable real world.
I read "plot to kill God" as "plot to kill Godot". No wonder he never showed up.
ReplyDelete--ingvild
Re: Chris's post
ReplyDeleteDC at the very least seems to be holding on to this idea that there is such a thing as heroism and that you can tell good from evil, and that the good guys can win. They've made a lot of individual decisions I disagree with, but their hearts are in the right place.
I don't think anyone wants a return to the sexism and jingoism of 60s comics, but the fundamental *optimism* that was so wonderfully expressed in Cooke's NEW FRONTIER is a value that I think really needs to be reaffirmed in these times, and it can be argued that wild escapism is a part of that- the idea that we won't just survive but enter a world of greater possibilities.
And it's not like being escapist prevents addressing important issues or even being dark or tragic. But CIVIL WAR went a step beyond and basically seemed to undercut the fundamental individualism at the heart of the superhero genre- the idea that one person can make a difference and that you should stand up for principles. Instead Cap stands down and heroes are tagged by the government for the Greater Good. There's something despairing about it.
Silly Ragnell :)
ReplyDeleteBendis is only capable of writing gritty street level characters in gritty street level stories.
That is all he is capable of.
ReplyDeleteBut CIVIL WAR went a step beyond and basically seemed to undercut the fundamental individualism at the heart of the superhero genre- the idea that one person can make a difference and that you should stand up for principles. Instead Cap stands down and heroes are tagged by the government for the Greater Good. There's something despairing about it.
ReplyDeleteAnd, again, a handful of series that have come out of Civil War have been about overturning or fighting against it. New Warriors, for example.
I don't see where Marvel is getting away from the idea that one person can make a difference at all. They have engineered a situation where both sides have valid points and they are letting their characters play around in that.
It's not like Civil War hit and suddenly all the heroes became "We have always been at war with Eurasia" robots. If you want that kind of old school heroism, it's there in plain sight.
Ragnell, you might like this:
ReplyDeletehttp://fortressofortitude.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/adventures-into-fear/