tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post115156773900439213..comments2024-01-02T09:18:23.893-05:00Comments on Written World: Damned List A Side Progress ReportRagnellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00373059673228550524noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-75766463270428465672009-11-16T19:45:55.539-05:002009-11-16T19:45:55.539-05:00There is also libby ( i think her name was Liberty...There is also libby ( i think her name was Liberty )from Savige Dragon, she was raped by the aliens from mars attack and inpregnated. /Mars Attack Image #4Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-46934867443007976912009-07-31T01:43:27.874-04:002009-07-31T01:43:27.874-04:00At the end of the "symbolic" list it has...At the end of the "symbolic" list it has "Supergirl II/Cir-El (Forced transformation, ref needed)." I'm actually doing research on SG for a paper. Has anyone this specific issue # for this instance? Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-6274897304775258882007-08-03T02:30:00.000-04:002007-08-03T02:30:00.000-04:00woo this is a long post! i don't know if this is t...woo this is a long post! i don't know if this is the most recent one, but I've some additions to make.<BR/><BR/>-Dagger is implied to be at least sexually assaulted the the Cloak impersonator in Runaways 9 &10.<BR/><BR/>two oddly similar events:<BR/><BR/>-the Anti-Vision (an alternate, evil version of the Vision who has switched bodies with the 616 Vision) attempts to rape Crystal in avengers #361<BR/><BR/>- "Lightning Squad" Nightcrawler (an alternate, Nazi version of the 616 hero) Attempts to rape Meggan in Excalibur #9<BR/><BR/>It's interesting to compare these two: both feature an alternate version of a teammate who can pass through walls (by phasing and teleportation, respectively) replacing the "real thing" and attempting to rape a colleague while they slept -- but this is getting a little off topic.<BR/><BR/>Also a number of "mind control" villians used their mojo to marry and/or father children who became main characters in the marvel U (even if the mothers themselves didn't) Purple girl is the daughter of Purple man, Wallflower (of the new mutants)'s mother was in thrall of her father, whose pheromone powers she inherited. Mastermind fathered two "lady masterminds" by different mothers, although I'm not sure of the circumstances, it's quite probable it was at least under false pretense, as mastermind uses a handsome illusion of himself to seduce women all the time.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of mastermind, It's strongly implied that he and toad both tried to rape or sexually assault the scarlet witch during her time with the brotherhood of evil mutants. It also appears that Magneto may have abused her sexually during that time too (made more disturbing by the fact that he's actually her father) <BR/>this is most apparent in a page i have <A HREF="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/uchidachi/General%20Comix/smaller.jpg" REL="nofollow">here</A><BR/>although i can't remember the actual issue that's in (a 90s avengers issue).<BR/>Magneto also tries to use her to seduce Namor so he will join their cause way back in Uncanny X-men 6<BR/><BR/>Also, the She-hulk/Starfox thing is wrapped up later in the series, he hesitates when she asked him if he used his love powers on her because he had "zapped" her and her boyfriend to stop their "lover's spat" (which awesome Andy then continued, causing their marriage). He emphatically denies that he used his power on her when they slept together, saying that it was only his "natural charms" he used. He is, however, apparently a serial rapist of many women, although he did not realize he was doing it, due to brain damage given to him by his brother, thanos.<BR/><BR/>I have to argue against saying that the Longshot's powers had something to do with his relationship with Dazzler, because they just don't work like that. His luck serves him more along the lines of his enemies misstepping on a loose floorboard or a tree branch bending so he can catch it while falling. So while they may have helped him look more suave in front of Dazzler, they definitely didn't control her in any way. Theirs is very clearly a consensual relationship<BR/><BR/>I'd also say that the "forced marriage" issue with kitty is quite far from attempted rape even... Caliban quite clearly wasn't intending to rape his "prettykitty", but getting her to marry him was the only way he could think of to force her to stay with the morlocks -- which is disturbing in it's own right, but I'd say it's very far from rape. probably shouldn't remove it from the list, but I'd say it at least warrants a note on the tone of the marriage.<BR/><BR/>eep that's a long response!Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12866424656429992369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-49024870874252285382007-03-27T02:21:00.000-04:002007-03-27T02:21:00.000-04:00Spent the weekend reading old school Avengers and ...Spent the weekend reading old school Avengers and came up with three more in rapid succession, which was really depressing. Kalinara said to leave 'em in the comments here.<BR/><BR/>Actual:<BR/><BR/>Ms Marvel - mind-controlled, raped and forcibly impregnated by Marcus Immortus (Avengers v. 1, #200)<BR/><BR/>Mockingbird - drugged by the Night Rider to lose her memories and believe she was his lover. Lived with him for some time. (West Coast Avengers #19)<BR/><BR/>Attempted:<BR/><BR/>Tigra - stalked, kidnapped and kept on a leash by Graviton, who tried to take advantage of her out-of-control cat nature to seduce her - a weakness he was aware of because he had been stalking her. (West Coast Avengers #13)Flidget Jeromehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08150651923105613662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1156801622600004632006-08-28T17:47:00.000-04:002006-08-28T17:47:00.000-04:00Talia should probably go on the Perpetrators list ...Talia should probably go on the Perpetrators list as of Batman 656, for a plot she and her Father enacted that involved drugging batman then using him to unwillingly impregnate Talia (this appearantly being the retcon version of the 'Son of the Daemon' book)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1155758457987923072006-08-16T16:00:00.000-04:002006-08-16T16:00:00.000-04:00I'm not sure if this qualifies, but here's a few p...I'm not sure if this qualifies, but here's a few pages from JLA v1 #145: <BR/><BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_1.jpg<BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_2.jpg<BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_3.jpg<BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_4.jpg<BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_5.jpg<BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_6.jpg<BR/>http://www.poisonivory.queenitsy.com/images/jla145_7.jpg<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if this would be considered "attempted forced marriage" (or "attempted living in sin," I guess), but it seems pretty clear that she felt extremely violated. *shrugs*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1155443781043758682006-08-13T00:36:00.000-04:002006-08-13T00:36:00.000-04:00Wait.How does Wonder Girl go on this list?Wait.<BR/><BR/>How does Wonder Girl go on this list?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1155396841696594042006-08-12T11:34:00.000-04:002006-08-12T11:34:00.000-04:00Don't forget Lady Lotus and her daughter Nia. As r...Don't forget Lady Lotus and her daughter Nia. As revealed in the New Invaders series, Lotus was raped by Meranno and became pregnant with Nia. Meranno also makes a reference to "my daughter's kisses were always sweet", alluding that he sexually abused Nia herself. He also raped an unnamed Eskimo woman during the same series.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1154740806431793752006-08-04T21:20:00.000-04:002006-08-04T21:20:00.000-04:00Re: Jessica Drew, Spider-WomanThe incident with Pu...Re: Jessica Drew, Spider-Woman<BR/><BR/>The incident with Purple Man took place in New Thunderbolts #12. We see Jessica draped across his lap, naked, then Kilgrave strokes her hair and says, "I'd prefer if Jessica continued to comfort me in these trying times... your pheromones and my pheromones, making beautiful music..." He also asks her if he's told her "about another Jessica I know", a reference to Jessica Jones of Alias.<BR/><BR/>So we don't see any sexual assault, but it's implied, and Spider-Woman's behavior was definitely coerced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1152837758968137602006-07-13T20:42:00.000-04:002006-07-13T20:42:00.000-04:00What an interesting, if troubling, project. Good o...What an interesting, if troubling, project. Good on you.<BR/><BR/>Some suggestions:<BR/><BR/>Attempted: Barbara Gordon. In the 'Madness' chapter in Loeb and Sale's 'Batman: Haunted Knight', young Barbara runs away and some Halloween themed thugs attempt to sexually assault her. She's 'rescued' by, over all people, the Mad Hatter, who dresses her up and keeps her (and other young runaways) at 'some sort of... insane tea party. Keeps them sedated--making them drink drugged tea.' (The Mad Hatter's a seriously creepy character . See also 'Robin: Year One' and the Gotham Central 'Unresolved' arc.)<BR/><BR/>Implied: Jean Loring. In Identity Crisis no 7, after Jean is confined to Arkham, a newspaper headline appears to read 'Atom's wife tortured by inmates.' (Apologies if I'm stating the obvious here - sounds like the sort of thing you must have discussed, but I don't see her on the list.)<BR/><BR/>cheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1152831459386544832006-07-13T18:57:00.000-04:002006-07-13T18:57:00.000-04:00What about Janissa in Conan #12 (1A). Shocking, an...What about Janissa in Conan #12 (1A). Shocking, and IIRC brought in a few unhappy reader letters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1152126074158119762006-07-05T15:01:00.000-04:002006-07-05T15:01:00.000-04:00Kali -- *Nods*Greg -- Once again, preliminary list...Kali -- *Nods*<BR/><BR/>Greg -- Once again, preliminary list. We're hunting down the issue with her and Cyclops right now. Kali remembered an actual, but even if she just attempted to seduce Scott using her powers -- that makes her a perpetrator. An unsuccessful one, but one nonetheless.<BR/><BR/>Tinderblast -- EekRagnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373059673228550524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1152051069090355872006-07-04T18:11:00.000-04:002006-07-04T18:11:00.000-04:00There have been two separate incidents when Mary J...There have been two separate incidents when Mary Jane Watson-Parker was kidnapped by a stalker. The first one (Amazing Spider-Man #307-309 with various follow-ups later on) - Jonathan Caesar, the Parkers' landlord - attempted to force her into marriage. The second, who I believe was unnamed, faked MJ's death, kept her locked up in a small room for six months, and tried to kill Peter Parker and take over his life (presumably his sex life as well). MJ "dies in an airplane crash" in ASM volume 2 #13 and returns in #28. I would hedge the second a little because it was a retcon of MJ's death after fan backlash, except that in doing so the Spider-Man team used not just a ridiculously overused plot device, but one that had been done before with the exact same character!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1152038064570476652006-07-04T14:34:00.000-04:002006-07-04T14:34:00.000-04:00I've mentioned this before, just because I like Ps...I've mentioned this before, just because I like Psylocke, but you have her as a perpetrator. I know she TRIED to seduce Cyclops (I assume that's the time you're talking about), but as far as I remember, she never succeeded. I'm sure my memory isn't as good as it should be, but does attempted seduction of a married man (who makes little effort to resist for a time) count? Is it just because she's a telepath? You might as well put Jean Grey on the perpetrator list because she could have easily used her telepathy to make Scott love her in the first place. Again, I'll have to check on the issues, but that's a bit of a stretch. And yes, it's just because I like Psylocke.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of X-Men, you mention that you need a ref on Dazzler. I have to call foul on this one too. We never really get a clear signal whether Longshot is using his "luck" power with Dazzler (and it doesn't seem like it works that way anyway), and Longshot was always established as being a bit naive, so I don't think he wouldn't even consider it. That's just my opinion, of course.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13481137891542684401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1152037997901471012006-07-04T14:33:00.000-04:002006-07-04T14:33:00.000-04:00I was recently rereading Marvel's INFINITY WAR tra...I was recently rereading Marvel's INFINITY WAR trade paperback (by Starlin and Lim) and I was struck by a scene in WARLOCK & THE INFINITY WATCH #9. While nothing was explicitly stated, Starlin makes it pretty clear that Gamora, the deadliest woman in the universe, is (in classic retcon-rape-as-motivation flashback style) raped and tortured as a teenager.<BR/><BR/>I can't say for sure that I'm not reading too much into the scene, but I think it qualifies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151957311802828402006-07-03T16:08:00.000-04:002006-07-03T16:08:00.000-04:00I agree the subtext DOES look suspicious, but I be...<I>I agree the subtext DOES look suspicious, but I believe Mike Grell can be taken at his word here. </I><BR/><BR/>Actually the point of the subtextual column has to do with reader interpretations. A lot of people read the story and believed she was raped. (clothes, position, inability to have children). Regardless of authorial intent, the reading is plausible. It contains all the visual clues that, for example, the rape of Apollo in Authority did, which apparently according to the author *was* intended to be read that way. I'm not doubting Grell's word, but the presence of the clues makes for interesting comparative analysis.<BR/><BR/>Actually though it also fits in "implied" because of other factors. There is a sexual threat uttered by the villain, a "you guys wanna piece of that before we mess up her face" kind of thing. (We also have a section for very sexualized torture. Regardless of whether rape actually happened, because of the subtextual sexual elements, these are considered to apply) <BR/><BR/>This is why the full-on list will be more helpful, because it will have the categories/criteria more cleanly delineated.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ragnell: I was thinking, for the full list, we may want to change statuatory to just "underage consentual sexual encounters". Then there's less debate about what goes there. Maturity doesn't end up an issue as much and it'll be easier to use for analysis.kalinarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01417686761943716312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151907651372481012006-07-03T02:20:00.000-04:002006-07-03T02:20:00.000-04:00Point of order.I think Dinah Lance should be moved...Point of order.<BR/><BR/>I think Dinah Lance should be moved from Implied/Subtextual to Symbolic for GA: Longbow Hunters.<BR/><BR/>I actually spoke with Mike Grell about this point through e-mail and he told me that he never meant to suggest that Dinah was raped. Tortured, yes. Degraded, yes. But the man doing this was a sadist who was more interested in cutting her than in sex.<BR/><BR/>I agree the subtext DOES look suspicious, but I believe Mike Grell can be taken at his word here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151813577960331702006-07-02T00:12:00.000-04:002006-07-02T00:12:00.000-04:00More checking. Harley Quinn #5 and 8 give more un...More checking. Harley Quinn #5 and 8 give more unbiased flashbacks to her life leading up to her first meeting the Joker and she is clearly fascinated by him long before she meets him. She is also shown as ruthless and manipulative. <BR/><BR/>#5 shows a recording of their first interview in which the Joker, initially uncooperative eventually asks if she is flirting with him. <BR/><BR/>As for insane, that depends on your definition, but if she was seduced by the Joker it was entirely consensual (according to this version).Marionettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06985975073151200366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151813234708691032006-07-02T00:07:00.000-04:002006-07-02T00:07:00.000-04:00I believe it's Harley Quinn #8.I believe it's Harley Quinn #8.Ragnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373059673228550524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151808943433457952006-07-01T22:55:00.000-04:002006-07-01T22:55:00.000-04:00If you give me a title and number I'll look it up....If you give me a title and number I'll look it up. I just checked her first comics in DCU continuity Batman: Harley Quinn and Batman #570, both of which give her origin. <BR/><BR/>both comics are possibly unreliable since the early parts are narrated by Harley herself, but she comes across as misguided rather than insane. She has a crush on Joker, who uses this to his advantage. Subsequently they have a good relationship until Joker decides he doesn't like caring about someone and attempts to blow her up.Marionettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06985975073151200366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151800152732035392006-07-01T20:29:00.000-04:002006-07-01T20:29:00.000-04:00Oh, and for harley Quinn -- Does anyone know if th...Oh, and for harley Quinn -- Does anyone know if the issue of her series where her origin was told as her going insane <B>before</B> she met the Joker is still in continuity?Ragnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373059673228550524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151799966731982922006-07-01T20:26:00.000-04:002006-07-01T20:26:00.000-04:00Anonymous -- I've seen panel with "liberties" and ...Anonymous -- I've seen panel with "liberties" and I'll put the other panel with the narrative as a reference note, and track that one down too.<BR/><BR/>But as far as I'm concerned, groping someone while they're naked is a form of sexual assault even if penetration never occurs. Hence the catergorization of Part one is Rape/Sexual Assault and not simply "Rape."Ragnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373059673228550524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151798881654639302006-07-01T20:08:00.000-04:002006-07-01T20:08:00.000-04:00One more thing about the Rgoue incident I missed.T...One more thing about the Rgoue incident I missed.<BR/><BR/>There is an earlier panel where one guard, reporting to his boss about a catatonic Rogue, says:<BR/>"I'm afraid some of my officers tooks a few.. liberties when she was being processed. What they thought was fun, she evidently felt was something else"<BR/><BR/>I can easily see where someone would infer a gangrape from such a vague statement and Rgoue's catatonic condition(ms marvel hadn't taken over yet). It's what I remember thinking when I first read through the issue myself. But the later captions, from the narrator's omniscent pov, do not support it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151798108891605772006-07-01T19:55:00.000-04:002006-07-01T19:55:00.000-04:00For the Rgoue incident in Genosha:Uncanny Xmen 236...For the Rgoue incident in Genosha:<BR/>Uncanny Xmen 236(1988)<BR/><BR/>Rogue and Wolvie wer teleported to Genosha, naked, then zapped and lost their powers and then captured.<BR/><BR/>I don't have a scanner, but the caption texts go:<BR/><BR/>All they did was touch her. Rude hands, ruder glances--taunting promies of things to come.<BR/><BR/>She couldn't stop them.<BR/><BR/>For so long she dreamed of being able to touch another person without her power absorbing his/her psyche.<BR/><BR/>To hold, to kiss, just like any other -- normal -- teenage girl.<BR/><BR/>In those dreams it was the most beautful of moments.<BR/><BR/>She never imagined being handled against her will.<BR/><BR/>Small wonder then, her response is to withdrawl as deeply into her mind as it's possible to go...<BR/><BR/>...to the lowest depths of her primal conscious.<BR/><BR/>The next scene is rogue in her own mind, where she allows Carol Danvers(Ms Marvel) to take over.<BR/><BR/>The scene after two gaurds, one male, one female come into Rogue's cell for some payback for stealing their minds in the fight before she was depowered. <BR/><BR/>By this time Rogue's body is dressed in a full body suit(a real ugly one with too many colors in alot of patterns) while Carol Danvers is in the drivers seat. The guard said the Genegineer (head bad guy) didn't want Rogue touched, but they don't care, they want to "get even".<BR/><BR/>The Carol Danvers controlled body of Rogue then proceeds to kick guard ass, rescue Wolvie(in bad shape with no healing factor) and carry him to escape.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538843.post-1151794383889177782006-07-01T18:53:00.000-04:002006-07-01T18:53:00.000-04:00Harley's an interesting case. I mean, one could a...Harley's an interesting case. <BR/><BR/>I mean, one could argue that if sex is mostly mental, then a sexual assault can be a mostly mental assault by the same token (realizing that I'm leaving out any discussion of telepaths or any puns on the term "mind-fuck"). so sure... Joker's seducing Harley into the dark side COULD have been taken as a sort of rape.<BR/><BR/>In "Mad Love",both the animated adapation and the comic, Joker was certainly physically abusive toward Harley and he certainly put her through mental abuse... but I don't think there was ever any indication that he had raped her in any fashion. Heck, apart from the "rev up your Harley" routine (which I still can't believe they snuck past Kids WB) there was never an overt suggestion of any sex in the relationship.<BR/><BR/>Funny. I thought the ancient "did he or didn't he" question involving Barbara Gordon and Joker in "The Killing Joke" would have come up before this...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com